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Poster: Ole Uncle John Date: Jan 8, 2012 12:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Stories about taping in the 60's and 70's?

Those were the best parts of those compendiums in my opinion, I thought of them when I started reading this thread. I for one would be psyched if this project gets anywhere. I wasn't a taper but would love to hear their stories...

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jan 8, 2012 8:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Stories about taping in the 60's and 70's?

The Archive, Lossless Legs, and The Festivarian are the music sites I hang out at. I know there's many other live music sites and discussion boards. I rarely post at LL. I've posted at Festivarian about vintage bluegrass, being a soundman with them, and taping them. Festivarian is the Forum site for Planet Bluegrass.

Yesterday I posted on LL about our discussion here. I'm not getting any Public responses. As of this moment, my post at LL has been viewed over 150 times. I'm getting PMs, and having a PM discussion with Tapers.

Perhaps more individuals can weigh in with more comments. Maybe the Non-Tapers can comment publicly, and the Tapers can come out of the closet privately in PMs?

I cannot do this myself, and I won't even try that. Thanks for your comments. Does anyone know if the original Compendium is available to use for a new Compendium? Is it fully copyrighted? If not, does anyone have a copy available for our proposal?

Here's the link to my LL thread about a Compendium - copied below:
The Internet Archive hosts files and collections for Texts, Images, Videos, and Audios. They have many Individual Collections. The Archive has a huge Live Music Archive collection that's been built up by Tapers. Etree is The Archive's partner for the LMA Collection. The Grateful Dead's collection is the largest part of this landscape. Because their Collection is so large and has so much activity, The Archive has given GD their own Collection.

Myself, Charlie Miller, and other Tapers might be interested in creating a new Taper's Compendium Collection on The Internet Archive. My idea is the intention to create 50 or more Audio items on The Archive - sooner, rather than later. After discussing this a little bit, we can e-mail The Archive at some point in the near future. The Archive will create this New Collection for us, and several of us can be the administrators. Typically, The Archive will require or expect 50 or more new items (from us) before they'll grant this privilege. Then they'll create a new collection for us. This will be our own collection. It would include its own Forum. We should also think about how we're going to deal with Trolls there. I believe we need to protect the Tapers from attacks and abuse coming from anonymous sources.

The first item to go into the new Taper's Compendium Collection should be Owsley "Bear" Stanley interview with David Gans on 1991-01-13.

For The Archive, its patrons, and a new Taper's Compendium, can you offer us your early Taping experiences, at some point? It's easy to create a multi-media layout for each Taper. We can work out the details for each Taper in every case. Your information is welcome here. It's valuable. Feel free to consider providing us a brief textual essay about your taping experiences. While not required, we'd like to have you and your taping-friends' names and photos. Most importantly, can you create an audio recording (or video recording) of a Taper's greeting message?

Here's the discussion thread for creating a new Taper's Compendium online. Lossless Legs is a great place to enhance this discussion. Thank You!

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jan 8, 2012 8:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Stories about taping in the 60's and 70's?

I am not a taper, which I have come to believe are their own separate species, but I applaud and encourage your ideas and efforts.

The only place I feel I could contribute would be regarding this statement,

"We should also think about how we're going to deal with Trolls there. I believe we need to protect the Tapers from attacks and abuse coming from anonymous sources."

Libertine or legalistic are the opposite poles, but policy tends to gravitate to one or the other. I have seen attacks and abuse here, but involving tapers? I don't count Matrix as tapes, more of a sonic collages, but counting the creators as tapers is the only abuse (and used loosely) I've seen. What would you censor? Someone who has a low opinion of a taping job? A show? What?

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jan 8, 2012 9:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Stories about taping in the 60's and 70's?

It's been suggested that a new Compendium should be created on a new website, while using The Archive as a repository. Creating a Taper's Compendium Collection on The Archive isn't necessary. I already created my taper's handbook. It's not a hosting issue. The problem is 100 per-cent Trolls.

An online Taper's Compendium needs to be interactive, multi-media rich, with web-based essays, editorial comments, topical discussions, and patrons' feedback and comments. The Internet Archive and many other websites have been doing these things for years.

As I understand it, from a Troll-problem point-of-view, once we've used The Archive as a repository for any content whatsoever, Trolls can attack that item. Attacks will appear in reviews of that item, whether or not it's in its own Collection. Trolls will also be ripping it to shreds in posts on a Forum, if it's web page content that's been posted in an Archive Forum. I've created many web pages in several Forums here. Clearly, we have scores and scores of examples already out there! Many individuals have been attacked. People like myself and others, who are using our real names, are acting like our real selves, and we cannot deal with Trolls. And you need to know that.

We all agree 100 per-cent: Trolls are 100 per-cent the problem. We don't think the Trolls should win.

We might form an Administrator Panel. Perhaps both public and private individuals would be on the Admin Panel. If a Compendium gets created on The Archive, then The Archive is involved. I'm just connecting the dots. If the Admin Panel voted to censor something in the Compendium, it would get edited or removed. No Trolls are allowed on Lossless Legs. No Trolls are allowed on The Festivarian. No Trolls are allowed on a private web site, unless you hack into it.

Content that's coming from a confirmed, actual person in the Real World should not be touched. This means using your real name. All people posting, real or anonymous, have read and agreed to The Archive's terms of use:.
In using the Archive's site, Collections, and/or services, you further agree (a) not to violate anyone's rights of privacy, (b) not to act in any way that might give rise to civil or criminal liability, (c) not to use or attempt to use another person's password, (d) not to collect or store personal data about anyone, (e) not to infringe any copyright, trademark, patent, or other proprietary rights of any person, (f) not to transmit or facilitate the transmission of unsolicited email ("spam"), (g) not to harass, threaten, or otherwise annoy anyone, and (h) not to act in any way that might be harmful to minors, including, without limitation, transmitting or facilitating the transmission of child pornography, which is prohibited by federal law and may be reported to the authorities should it be discovered by the Archive.

You agree that we may contact you from time to time with surveys or other questions regarding your opinions about and uses of the Archive, as well as with information we believe may be of interest to you. We encourage you to respond to these surveys because we value your input, which will assist us in improving the Archive. In addition, we request that, according to standard academic practice, if you use the Archive's Collections for any research that results in an article, a book, or other publication, you list the Archive as a resource in your bibliography.

While we collect publicly available Internet documents, sometimes authors and publishers express a desire for their documents not to be included in the Collections (by tagging a file for robot exclusion or by contacting us or the original crawler group). If the author or publisher of some part of the Archive does not want his or her work in our Collections, then we may remove that portion of the Collections without notice.

The Archive may immediately terminate this Agreement at its sole discretion at any time upon written notice (including via email) to you. Upon termination, you agree that the Archive may immediately deactivate any password it has issued to you and bar you from accessing the Collections or the Site.

The Archive may modify this Agreement from time to time, and your continued use of the Collections and/or the Site constitutes your acceptance of any and all modifications. The Archive will attempt to notify you of substantial modifications via the email address that you have registered with us, if any.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jan 8, 2012 9:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Stories about taping in the 60's and 70's?

Monte, would that not create a IA within an IA? Rules for almost all forums, but not this one? It quickly becomes a Gordian knot with no Alexander in sight.
Real names would be a step in solving the troll problem, but what if you want or need anonymity? How could you verify my real name? IA solved this by allowing an extremely wide margin of free speech, and consequently from time to time we get an Islam Sucks, which after much and prolonged abuse thrown at us, was removed. An extremely libertine policy. I fear a slippery slope on the way to controlling access to a particular forum.
Such a taper's forum can be taken off IA, but the reviews as you link to the particular show are still going to be on IA, w/ it's policies. A troll could go nuts there as some already have.
Trolls suck. No debate needed. You know that I have had a few aim their fire at me (splue), so I understand the frustration, but isn't that the price we pay to write what we want?
On the road, even at the beginning, of legalism, things first become trimmed, then pruned, and always voices become stiffed or muted. I wish we could toggle the moderation and tolerance button somewhat, but we can't. Open to all or the fences begin to get built.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jan 8, 2012 10:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Stories about taping in the 60's and 70's?

Speaking strictly for myself - in my case, feel free to put me on a cash retainer, or hire me under contract, on pay me a token fee like a $15-per-hour stipend to work part time from home. Then I'll do what you tell me. I've said, and I've done, nearly everything else that's needed to get this Compendium going. Many of us have, particularly - The Archive and all the Tapers. There's plenty of sites out there. The other 98 per-cent of the Tapers are keeping quiet, where it's safe and secure. But, it's a secret.

You and others need to bring this to fruition yourselves, by peer-reviewing yourselves. I've had my say, I've been called out, and I've taken plenty of action. This is up to all of you - NOT ME.

Why don't you try asking other Tapers, and other Troll victims, and other Patrons what they think? This is not about me. I'm getting dosed now!

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jan 8, 2012 12:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Stories about taping in the 60's and 70's?

I don't think I am the audience you are speaking to in your first paragraph. No doubt that many tapers I've met or chatted with keep their cards close.

unclejohn, Mando and others whose handles escape me (sorry) have preached about the "back flow preventor valve" when it comes to peer review. Unfortunately, that old jalopy is all we have to combat trolls.

btw-I hope you had a good journey. :-)

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jan 8, 2012 1:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Stories about taping in the 60's and 70's?

Re: My journey... what a long, strange trip it's been.

Re: Pay

Troll attacks all over the internet on real Taper people and their families creates endless grief for them in the real world, not just on the internet. You and others need to know this. Can't you understand, you're asking for Tapers and their families to have their family names, pride, respect, dignity, and self-esteem put on the line, for you and all the Patrons, right? Prove me wrong. But I'm not trying to be correct here. I don't see you saying, "Don't do a Compendium!"

I don't even have an expense account for any of this --- while, at the same time, you're announcing that you're bailing out - and doing Nothing, and you're telling me and the rest of us what to do? Yes, I'd get paid at that point. You're being my boss, and that's how bosses behave, and I get paid for taking these kind of instructions. You've described conditions on the job. When you pay me, you can always have any two of these three, BUT NEVER all three: cheapest, fastest, best.

But I doubt I'd ever do this your way for money in the first place. If I already knew that Tapers and their families were going to suffer from Troll attacks because of my work, why would I waste my time? I'd have to delete my work right away, and quit my job immediately. Why bother trying? And what Tapers, and their families and friends reading this thread right now, are going to say, "Today is a good day for a Troll attack. I'm going to go Public on the online Compendium"? The answer already exists in this thread: ZERO!

If some of us are trying to do a Compendium without you, and you've already bailed out - after being invited to participate and help solve the problems, what do you care what gets done, or how, or by whom? I suggest you ignore me, study the matter, and / or do it yourself. That's what I'm doing. Monte's Taper Handbook

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jan 8, 2012 6:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Stories about taping in the 60's and 70's?

I paid attention to what you wrote Monte.

>Troll attacks all over the internet on real Taper people and their families creates endless grief for them in the real world, not just on the internet.

I don't understand. Is private information (financial, medical, i.d. theft) being written in forums specifically targeting tapers?

Monte, do a Compendium. Who is stopping you? Put whatever safeguards up. Just dealing w/ IA only when you link to a show isn't so bad in the trolling department.

Disagreeing over whether to have an IA within spawned many possessive pronouns in your post that assumed a great deal.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jan 9, 2012 8:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Stories about taping in the 60's and 70's?

Would you please supply all of us with your real name, and a real photograph(s) of yourself? Would you please post them in this thread?

I'd be honored to continue having a civil and informative conversation with you about Trolls (or anything) at that point. That's when you and I, and all people using their real names, will be on a level playing field. You're anonymous, I'm real. It's not a level playing field. It's not even close. You're one inch from a Troll. (same as a Troll)

I'm willing to trust you, befriend you, respect you, share with you, and advocate for you, if you're a real person. In other words, if you're a real person, I'll have a real conversation with you about Trolls. My conversation with you is NOT real. It's b.s. chatter (same as talking to a Troll), imo. "Get Real!"

You can decide on the dosage levels.

My name is Monte Barry

Monte_wants_Peace.jpg

My photo above was taken be me at home several years ago. I have a pony tail now, but you can't see it in this recent photo.

This post was modified by dead-head_Monte on 2012-01-09 16:43:18

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jan 9, 2012 8:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Stories about taping in the 60's and 70's?

>You're one inch from a Troll.

I'm sorry that you feel this way. I guess most of us here then constitute a forum of trolls.

Monte, did you notice that I have used my given name many times and have also once (twice?) had my photo released on this forum? Regardless, why do I or anyone else need to supply information that you deem entry level for not being inches from trolldom? No one ordered you to post the way you do or release information about your life. To expect that from others is unfair. There are those here who guard there privacy right down to their given name. It is their purview alone.

My question to you stands,

>Troll attacks all over the internet on real Taper people and their families creates endless grief for them in the real world, not just on the internet.

I don't understand. Is private information (financial, medical, i.d. theft) being written in forums specifically targeting tapers?

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jan 9, 2012 9:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Stories about taping in the 60's and 70's?

It's not just Tapers getting attacked here by Trolls. I'm a favorite target, and I've been attacked severely too many times to count - for more than three years!

Many people have been attacked here. It's Everyone's problem, or anyone visiting here. Attacks may come at any time - and you know it! You've repeated and intimated this numerous times in this thread. We AGREE! We get it!

If you're not going to act like a Troll, please post your name and photo right now. What are you afraid of? Me? Why? I weigh 135 pounds. I'm a punky little pipsqueak dude!

What is your name? Let's see a pic. Post it in this thread, please. You too, rdenirojb87. Is that a name? Get Real! Read the thread!

This chatter is Pure b.s. You've already implied you're not going to adhere to The Archive's Terms of Use - which I posted above. However, you've already agreed to The Archive's Terms of Use when you signed up here to get on this Forum discussion board.

People like me, The Archive, and others will stick up for you, and watch your back if you are attacked in the Real Person. Trolls are cowards. Please, be a real man. You're acting silly. Imo, it's foolish. This message is for all Trolls. I don't want you and others to think I'm picking on you, or any individual person.

What's next? A Troll Attack? Please - don't. Sorry about edits and typo corrections.

This post was modified by dead-head_Monte on 2012-01-09 17:34:49

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Jan 9, 2012 10:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Stories about taping in the 60's and 70's?

Hi Monte. The name's Jared. I don't have many good recent pictures, but here's a nice happy picture of me with my brother and cousins on Christmas in 2010. I'm in the middle, my brother is behind me, and the cousins fill out the rest.

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g338/rdenirojb87/xmas2010.jpg

I understand you've been attacked here by trolls before. But I'm curious to know, what form do these attacks come in? Is it strictly senseless drivel, that serves to damage your ego? Has your safety ever been in jeopardy? As Micah asked, "Is private information (financial, medical, i.d. theft) being written in forums specifically targeting tapers?" I think Rosie McGee offered some valuable commentary on trolls 2 days ago:

“Monte - no need for an apology and no need to delete anything. I actually think while the interest is certainly surprising, there's no harm done, even by the trolls. I'm old enough to have gotten over long ago, concerns about whether someone thought I was beautiful or ugly 40 years ago. No worries.”

If you have indeed experienced attacks more serious than just the standard troll spewings, then I apologize. If not, then I believe you are worrying far too much about the trolls. I love your idea for this project and would love to see it come to fruition. My initial comments came as a reaction to the manner in which you've been talking to micah in this thread. It seems you're taking a bit of frustration out on him, when he is only trying to offer some advice, and not telling you what to do. I just found some of your comments surprising Monte, and not in line with the respectable image you've created for yourself here.

This post was modified by rdenirojb87 on 2012-01-09 18:06:01

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Jan 9, 2012 9:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Stories about taping in the 60's and 70's?

Well I suppose I'll REALLY be viewed as a troll for speaking my mind here, but I could give a shit.

I wouldn't worry Sean. This isn't the Monte I've come to know, but i suppose enough lysergic will cause anyone to lose their marbles. I just hope it's temporary. I'm stunned at some of things he's been spouting.

Monte, I really mean no offense by any of this, and you can take it as you wish. However, some of your recent comments are not reflective of the friendly, considerate, and helpful individual that everyone here has grown to love. I love reading your posts, and admire how much you contribute, but seriously, where is this misguided hostility and distrust coming from? Maybe you don't see it, but I'm not the only one who thinks you've been making ludicrous statements of late.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jan 9, 2012 11:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Stories about taping in the 60's and 70's?

You're dreaming. It's pathetic, imo. You're intimating you don't believe me. I'm not gonna show you all this stuff right now, about me, and destroy myself numerous times all over again.

I'm not gonna go down the list of others that have been attacked here, and show you those attacks. That's being the worst cowardly Troll there is, and digging up old dirt. I respect these individuals who are attacked by Trolls, and I'm vowing to protect them. Will you do that? It's a simple vow. Can you take it? Will you act upon it, when the time calls? You'll never, never, NEVER see that happening here. Never! You 'will see' bullying, ganging up on people, insults, spamming, threats, cursing, and the worst type of "written humiliation" on The Internet. You actually take pride in any of this?

By using my real identity, I'm not going to destroy myself by being a Troll. Think of it as an insurance policy against morphing into a Troll. You should try considering that. It takes some courage. It's called Real Life in the Real World. People don't act like Trolls in the real world. Where have you been?

The Compendium, me, you, Trolls, and The Archive, are off my table! It's your show. My ticket has been punched. The roadmap for doing a Compendium is in this thread. I've given it to all of you on a silver platter for free. I wouldn't touch this with your attitudes... unless things changed...

Trolls Win! Get Real! I repeat, "You make your bed, and then you lay in it."

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